General Stanley McChrystal served as commander of the Joint Special Operations Command before becoming the top commander in Afghanistan in 2009. He resigned from that position in 2010 and is now a member of the Yale University faculty.
Harvard Political Review: What do you believe has been most responsible for your success?
Stanley McChrystal: Anything you become or do is a product of the experiences and the people you interact with. I came from a very good family with two parents who were very interested in their six kids. I went to good public schools in Virginia and then had four years at the US Military Academy. But I was also lucky because I was given a good foundation of values. I was especially lucky to be able to work with leaders whose personal example and willingness to spend time guiding me turned out to be so important. And once in a while, some leaders are better than others, but if you’re observant, you learn from all of them. I didn’t come to any brilliant conclusions of my own. I think I was very much an experiential product.
HPR: When you hear news about what is going on currently in the Middle East, how do you react? Based on your past experiences, what do you think will happen?
SM: What we are seeing is a product of decades of issues that are coming to some sort of a climax now. What we’ve had is a historical progression of challenges in different types of government, all of which are struggling to maintain legitimacy with the people. And then layered on top of that are economic problems for much of the population and a lack of political and social opportunities. This creates an environment in which there is a significant level of frustration and fear like the Sunnis in Western Iraq. When you put all these things together, suddenly other issues rise and become really bad.
HPR: What are your thoughts on the rise of ISIS?
SM: I describe ISIS as somewhat akin to what happens when somebody gets HIV/AIDS. HIV/AIDS doesn’t kill you by itself. Rather, it weakens your immune system so that little diseases that wouldn’t bother an otherwise healthy person suddenly become life threatening. ISIS is a proponent of a politically and socially unacceptable level of extremism to almost everyone in the world, but it is having this outsized effect in that region right now. As a consequence, I try to remind people that ISIS is not the problem; ISIS is a symptom of the problem. The real problems are wider and deeper. It’s going to take a decades-long approach to making changes in the Middle East. There has to be cultural, political, and economic changes. That’s going to take a long patient engagement by the entire world.
HPR: Do you have any specific policy recommendations in order to enact these changes?
SM: Engagement is critical. There’s going to be a temptation to look at places like Yemen, which is undergoing terrific problems right now, and to just simply say the stove was hot when I touched it so I’m going to walk away and wait until my hand cools off. There is a danger if we back away from the region. We won’t make it better if we ignore it. We have to stay engaged. I’m not giving a prescription for military intervention. Engagement is a cross range of diplomacy and various economic and cultural factors that allow us to have a better understanding of what is happening.
HPR: You are known for being very honest in what you say and think. How has this guided you in the military?
SM: Candor is essential. If you ask somebody what time it is, you expect fully that they’re going to give you the accurate time. If you ask somebody what he thinks about something more complex than that, and you think that he’s giving you an incomplete or deceptive answer, then you have to discount it. If you can’t achieve a level of transparency between individuals and organizations, then you’re almost necessarily going to be far less effective. One of the biggest problems organizations—particularly the US government—have to address is the inability to have effective interactions. Having these interactions is a foundational requirement to problem solving in a group with different perspectives.
HPR: You currently teach a seminar called “Leadership” at Yale University. If there is one thing you want your students to take away from this class, what would it be?
SM: I start out the course by saying two plus two does not equal four. This doesn’t represent my weakness in math. What I tell my students is that two plus two equals what the people in the room decide it equals. That was actually my experience throughout my whole career. You can have the best policy recommendation and have a brilliant solution. But when you begin interacting with other people involved and you can’t articulate it, if you can’t convince people, if you haven’t built up trust, they are not going to follow you. I have found a lot of people in my career who would be terrifically frustrated asking why won’t more people understand their solutions. This comes back to the importance of interactions, which is really the essence of leadership—how do you influence people in groups to do things? What we do in my course is look at case studies like the Financial Crisis of 2008 and the Cuban Missile Crisis, and we analyze what were the interactions that actually shaped the outcomes.
HPR: Do you have any advice for students who may be considering a career serving in the military?
SM: Any time you can get leadership experience, particularly when you’re young, it will be valuable for the rest of your life. Almost everyone I know who served in the military might not like parts of it. They don’t like to be cold, wet, and tired but almost all walk away saying they are better off having had the chance to lead people. It can shape you. I would tell young people that you don’t have to do it for a career, but in the military you will go in and meet people not from your zip code and not from your economic or religious background. You’ll be put together in an environment and organization where you have to have a common purpose. And you will find that as much as you think are a leader shaping others, it will actually be you who is shaped by the experience.
HPR: You are currently the director of the Franklin Project at the Aspen Institute. Could you describe the work you are doing?
SM: The biggest thing I am pushing now is the concept of citizenship and the importance of all young Americans doing a year of service. It does not have to necessarily be in the military. It could be anything from conservation to Teach For America to healthcare. But I believe that it is not the service you do that matters; it is the effect on the individuals when you serve. If people do a year of service, they come out differently. For example, statistics show that these people vote three times the rate than people who haven’t served. It starts with the idea that if I have invested my time and effort in society, I’m going to be a better citizen for the rest of my life. I find that very true so I am really urging all young people to take that course. We will become a better country because of this.
This interview has been edited and condensed.
Image credit: Wikimedia Commons/U.S. Army